The 99% Declaration » 4. Term Limits

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# 4. Term Limits

Grievances Add comments
Dec 082011

Term Limits. Members of the United States House of Representatives shall be limited to serving no more than four two-year terms in their lifetime. Members of the United States Senate shall be limited to serving no more than two six-year terms in their lifetime. The two-term limit for President shall remain unchanged. Serving as a member of Congress or as the President of the United States is one of the highest honors and privileges our culture can bestow. These positions of power and prominence in our society should be sought to serve one’s country and not provide a lifetime career designed to increase personal wealth and power.

“If a due participation of office is a matter of right, how are vacancies to be obtained? Those by death are few. By resignation none.” Thomas Jefferson, 1801

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### 46 Responses to “4. Term Limits”

1. mikejaskula says:
   2012/02/07 at 2:42 pm

   Term limits may sound like a reasonable solution, but it is more window dressing than substance. Consider that only a tiny fraction of the federal government is elected. Most people who actually run the government are nameless bureaucrats, staffers, regulators, staff attorneys and the like.

   If we institute public financing of elections, restrictions on gifts (see my comment under suggested Grievance #3), and address gerrymandering, there will be no need for term limits.

   I move to drop this grievance from the petition.

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2. mohavehiker says:
   2012/02/06 at 1:36 am

   Gerrymandering is the reason that Incumbents keep getting re-elected. Gerrymandering creates safe electoral districts.We can fix gerrymandering by using bipartisan or non-partisan committees to redefine boundaries when population shifts cause the need for a new electoral districts and we use a consensus model within the committee to decide these boundaries.We have to keep the politicians and the parties out of it. If we did this I believe there would be more turnover in elections. If there is more turnover in elections we would not need term limits. As it is now Politicians do not need to run to the middle, they can “preach to the choir” because the district is drawn to be either Republican or Democrat. As we have seen when politicking to their base we get more and more extreme positions and less moderation. If the electoral districts were drawn fairly the politicians would have to woo all people and extreme positions would not be favored. I would like to see this Petition item to be about gerrymandering and filibuster rules rather than Term Limits.

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3. bpboyarko says:
   2012/01/29 at 10:00 am

   A bright, talented and productive legislator is a rare find, and it would seem to be counter-productive to install an automatic termination for someone who is doing a great job. You would never do that in your business, why should you have to with your government? I feel that the idea of term limits is a solution born out of frustration with the stranglehold the corrupting influences have on the system. Let’s work on derailing the corrupting influences, which are the root cause of the problem.

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   - robdinsmore says:
     2012/01/29 at 11:39 am

     Can you please explain who these bright legislators are and what it is that they do that makes them so indispensable?

     I think 8 and 12 may be a little low, but allowing people to stay forever is not a good system. Saying it needs to be that way because of one rare genius that may exist is moronic. If there are really, really good legislators who come up through the system then they can work elsewhere in politics. If the term limits are set at 12/12 or 12/18 they can spend 24-30 years in the house/senate and then another 8 in the Whitehouse or a state house or running a city or in the cabinet, or working for a think tank writing bills for congress. If they are good, term limits will not limit their ability to use their “powers” for good.

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4. mathonius says:
   2012/01/25 at 11:57 pm

   I do not disgree that there are some serious problems with in our congress. However, I do not agree that mandatory term limits on congressional members is the answer to this problem. Serving in the congress is an honor, and only the best and brightest should be allowed to serve their constituency. My fear is that with such a bill we will limit the people from getting the very best to serve. Example instead of a educated persons going into to the private sector after college they decide and try for a career as a representative for their state or district. If they are unable to work in the private sector for companies that they regulated, or authored bills that benefited that compay then there prospect for job opprotunities will be greatly reduced. So why ever seek a congressional, or career in public service if you will be unemployed in 12 years or less. I say we keep the best for as long as they can. Let democracy work. If they are doing a good job, and taking care of there people then they should be re-elected till the people see fit for a change. I would be for a bill that states that a member of the Senate or House can only represent a state or district only after they have physically lived in that state for no less than 10 years. I would also like to see a bill that would no longer make a Supreme Court appointment a lifetime position. I would be for a bill that required a Justice to be subjected to an election or a recall after 8 years of service, and every 8 years after. A country can change quite a bit over the course of a generation it is unfair that voters who are not even born yet be subjected to the interpretation of the law by a Justice who is appointed to the bench by a President that much of the population did not or could not vote for. 50 years is to long for any one person to reside in a public position without the ability for the voters to remove him or her.

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   - robdinsmore says:
     2012/01/29 at 12:01 pm

     I am continually floored by the lack of logic in these anti-term limit posts. People will not enter into a career in politics because they might be unemployed in 12 years? What!? They may be out of their job in 2 years like many will come next January. Out of curiosity what industry are you anti-term limit people coming from? Your own experience is likely playing into your thinking and I think it must be so different from how life in corporate management or public service is like. People in those industries move around a lot because as they gain experience, they become more valuable to other employers than they are to their current companies.

     When have we ever had a fresh college graduate run for congress and make it? If we did there is no way in hell that that person would not be highly employable. Congresspeople do not regulate every industry so there would be tons of firms willing and able to hire someone like that. Also the end of one role does not signal the end of all public service. If as a senator you know that the end of your tenure is coming up after 12 or 18 years, then you start planning what you will be doing next. There are tons of options in both the private and public sector. Nobody really says, I want to spend my entire life in this job, they want to learn, get good, then find something new to apply their talents to.

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5. montanaeasy5 says:
   2012/01/20 at 9:34 pm

   The way our government works now is that the lobbyists write the bills, the Senator or Congressman’s aides read the bill and then tell the member how to vote…they do not do a whole lot of work themselves to make the salary that they get. The past 3 years is pretty evident that there is no intention of wither party to do anything to help the economy or the people in this country. We are nothing but pawns in their quest for power and money. Have been for quite some time.

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   - robdinsmore says:
     2012/01/22 at 11:55 am

     True. The people below have the common misconception that congresspeople become skilled at anything other than politicking. They do not. They simply sponsor bills brought to them by lobbyists and don’t even read most of them.

     Considering that most of them have been doing some sort of job for a decade or more and probably have an MBA or JD it would be silly to argue that they need experience to get good at it. It would just be a new job. Maybe the first year would be hard, but by year 2 they know who everyone is and how everything works. The biggest asset to them would be having some experienced people on their administrative staff.

     I think the people who oppose limits are thinking about the possibility of normal people running for these offices. That’s never going to ‘really’ happen. Anyone who runs will be qualified through experience or enthusiastic enough to to make up for it. By having term limits we can set up a system that gives some of those enthusiastic people with new ideas a chance to state their case.

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     - Adamd says:
       2012/01/23 at 6:16 am

       When is it ever a good idea to have all your employees as “Temps” What is the goal of a temp? Either to make as much money as possible, or to get connection so that he can propel himself to make good money at more permanent job.

       Putting in term limits won’t get fresh ideas from enthusiastic people. Term limits will force the good politicians out(which there are very few) and create a revolving door for all the bad politicians.

       Our government is broke and our electoral system is a joke. But the most frustrating thing is, almost have the population is either ignorant, or greedy, selfish bastards whose only concern about society is what they can take from it.

       Term limits is a quick fix solution to a complicated problem. If you really think about the ramifications of making all of our elected officials “Temps” there is no way it is a good thing for the long haul of our government.

       Your just inviting more exploiters into our government, not fresh enthusiastic young people.

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       - robdinsmore says:
         2012/01/24 at 11:07 pm

         How can you consider 8 or 12 years a ‘temp’ assignment? Most people switch jobs or find different roles in shorter periods. Why is it ok to have a temp as a president?

         And how exactly does having new people lead to more corruption? Is magic involved in keeping only the good honest politicians in office more than 8 or 12 years?

         Yes it’s a complicated problem, but calling the better part of a decade a temp position does very little to make your case against term limits. If they really are so great, they are free to run for another office.

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         - Adamd says:
           2012/01/26 at 6:28 am

           Exacty! why should anyone be a temp. What should any political official have a limit on their term. Isn’t it up to the voters to decide who they want in there?

           What kind of magic is involved in which you put term limits on politicians and corruption is gone. Or that they become more dedicated…..

           All I’m saying is that forcing term limits on political office is not going to magically make our system better. I think it would make it worse. The large corporate money banks every few years hand pick a fresh guy no one has heard of and gets him elected. And continue the cycle forever. Term limits is not a solution.

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6. montanaeasy5 says:
   2012/01/20 at 9:29 pm

   I am a firm believer in two terms..One in Congress and the second one in prison. If they aren’t crooked going in, after one term they are coming out. The whole system is corrupt, The two party system and its’ greed has miserably failed the people and the nation.

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   - robdinsmore says:
     2012/01/20 at 9:43 pm

     Ha ha.

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7. HiImJohn says:
   2012/01/19 at 8:51 pm

   I get how term limits can stop incumbents from using their power to unjustly continue/increase their power.
   But how many democrats would’ve loved to have seen Clinton debate W?
   I think you see my point.
   My take would be to make a limit of 12 years – as POTUS, H.Rep., or Senator – before being required to take a full term off.
   If a citizen who served was truly productive for and appreciated by his/her constituents, they will have their chance to try something different, but if they decide to keep that incumbent as long as they want they can go back if they want.

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8. hyannisman says:
   2012/01/19 at 4:31 pm

   Actually one six year term for president has some merit. First it would end the not stop campaigning for president and secondly a president could concentrate on governing instead of being consume by reelection.

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9. hyannisman says:
   2012/01/19 at 4:31 pm

   Actually one six year term for president has some merit. First it would end the not stop campaigning for president and secondly a president could concentrate on governing instead of being consume by reelection

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10. robdinsmore says:
    2012/01/13 at 2:49 am

    I don’t see how you really need many many years experience to be able to draft a decent piece of legislation. Congressmen do not write all 400 pages of the bills with their names on it, they plan the basic idea then get help from many sources.

    If someone is not capable of drafting legislation after a year or so, then they really need to have a 1 term limit due to incompetence.

    Seniority grants power and too much influence. There is no place for it. Also if they really are that good at being a politician then they can run for other offices giving them plenty of time to influence the direction of the country.

    Fixing the money problem is far more important than term limits, but we really do not need career politicians either.

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11. pclark44224 says:
    2012/01/04 at 8:10 pm

    I cannot agree with term limits set on congressional seats. Limiting the terms of politicians is the job of the voters. If people continue to like a candidate and vote for him then he should continue to sit in office.

    I think I can get behind a long single term (~20 years) on the Supreme Court. I understand why lifetime appointment was set for justices, to ensure that the judges would not be beholden to the whims of the President, Congress, or even the people, but rather to act in best accordance with the law of the Constitution. But lets face it, people are living a lot longer these days. A single 20 year appointment is plenty of time to sit on the bench and allows for new blood from a fresh generation.

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    - zarepheth says:
      2012/01/04 at 8:39 pm

      I’m beginning to agree with removing the term limits.

      From reading other people’s comments, I’m thinking that if we get rid of money from politics, the impetus for term limits will go away.

      Reducing the term length on the supreme court and possibly allowing for proactive removal might be a prudent measure to limit the supreme court’s power – especially as it currently seems to be stacked in favor of large corporations to the detriment of everyone else.

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      - peedropaula54 says:
        2012/01/13 at 7:33 pm

        And don’t forget, these are only SUGGESTED grievances. The delegates may choose to completely rewrite or eliminate any or all lf our suggestions based on the wishes of the citizens they represent.

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    - mspollok says:
      2012/01/12 at 9:49 pm

      To propose the removal of a suggested grievance you must start an online poll on the FB page with your proposal and leave the poll up for at least five days. If you would like me to do it I will. We have voted on this THREE times. Each time with a different result. So it has been in and out and in and now it would be out again.

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    - robdinsmore says:
      2012/01/14 at 1:09 pm

      Why not make the term limits a little longer than 8/12 rather than eliminating them entirely? Long standing members of Congress have much more power than rookies. Doesn’t this distort the political landscape to favor the districts with senior incumbents holding office for decades? Also eliminating money will not eliminate the partisan nature of politics. Each party will still be ‘governed’ by the senior members whose mindsets are likely biased towards older ideas.

      Yes you loose some expertise in getting votes and running committees, but these skills are nothing more than arts in manipulation, not something we need in our government. Without term limits, we’d still have John Boehner and Eric Cantor holding a hard line against Pelosi et al, because they are trying to win the next election. Getting rid of these people with term limits, will limit the power of the elites to control the behaviors of the less senior members.

      As I mentioned before, congress(wo)men are not experts at drafting legislation, they just have the power to get bills considered. They may write their own bills, but they are not the ones sitting down writing it. They bring the ideas and others do the grunt work. Or as the case usually is, a lobbyist brings a bill to them like SOPA/PIPA and they are ‘convinced’ of it’s merits and ultimately sponsor it. Other congressmen rely on aides to read these bills and “studies” to help them decide on their vote, but today, they pretty much vote as decided by the senior staff.

      It doesn’t take a genius to do this, and you do not need many years to become good at it. People running for office are professional adults. If they are not competent coming in, then they will never be competent. It’s not rocket science, it’s politics and economics and they are not learning the complexities and history of the countries economy that we hope they would be.

      Please keep this as a grievance with perhaps a 6/3 term limit.

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    - bogotabro says:
      2012/01/23 at 3:19 am

      I agree that term limits should be determined by the voters. Remove two problems and term limits are unnecessary: 1) Get money out of the election process 2) Fix gerrymandering of districts to favor the incumbent for perpetual re-election.

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12. ryanhebert1978 says:
    2011/12/30 at 1:02 am

    There should be term limits for all 3 branches of government.Supreme Court Judges should serve a one term of 18 years on the Supreme Court.

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13. blake says:
    2011/12/30 at 12:10 am

    I agree the majority of the post here. My first fear is that we would end up with the “amateur legislators” as mentioned here. This would lead to the bureaucrats running large portions of the government, thus reducing the power of our votes. If term limits were to be enforced, someway of limiting the bureaucrats power would be needed. Transparency would be the first line of defense. We wouldn’t want to elect a congress who’s only engaging in “over site” activities. This would give them the perfect escape goat. My next fear is a permanent class of bureaucrats mixed with a permanent presents of lobbyist will lead to corruption. On the pro side of the argument, term limits would make the corporations that are trying to buy a congress member with election donations to spend a lot more money. It takes more money to get a new person elected to office vs. an incumbent.

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14. Mark Greene says:
    2011/12/19 at 10:04 am

    Agree with other posters here. I work in Mexico, where every office is term limited. Creates a system rife for corruption since the voters have no means by which to hold legislators to account.

    This item should be eliminated. Replace it with one targeting gerrymandering, perhaps?

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    - hargoskip says:
      2012/01/24 at 11:06 am

      I believe that term limits would not be good for the USA. It really takes time to become good at any job we do. With term limits in place our congress will become amatures. Term limits should be manadated by the consituents vote. If they are happy with the job their elected offical is doing then he/she should be able to serve again. Think about how term limits can hurt if people like Teddy Kennedy were limited to two six year terms. He was this nation’s biggest voice for universal health care.

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15. Dan Long says:
    2011/12/19 at 4:33 am

    I would strike this one.

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16. progressivist says:
    2011/12/18 at 4:16 pm

    While this sounds great, I have lived in countries that change politicians frequently, and what you get is an army of amateurs who do not understand governance. In addition, we would get rid of the American tradition of statesmen who have served their country well. If the United States is to be a land of opportunity, we cannot ethically deny those who feel that their life’s calling is to serve their fellow countrymen. Just think of the few incorruptible politicians we have now (yes, there are some!) and how we would mourn their loss.

    Instead I would like to see a recall process or no-confidence vote.

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    - novadust says:
      2011/12/19 at 7:26 am

      “army of amateurs who do not understand governance”?

      you mean like the class of 2010?

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17. Caroline says:
    2011/12/18 at 12:53 pm

    Like the intent; don’t like the potential outcomes. If we can get the monied corruption out of our government, it won’t be needed. I’d strike this one.

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    - novadust says:
      2011/12/19 at 7:24 am

      exactly.

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18. Jean Netherton says:
    2011/12/18 at 12:49 pm

    Personally I continue to be against item 4. Term limits. To change it instead to something like Raising Political Awareness. Already, if someone cares, the proceedings and results of a politicians activities are online. A campaign to bring the information of how to find the info needs to be bought to the classroom, bill boards etc. The term limits on a politician is the vote every two years for a US Representative and every six years for a US Senator.

    Reading the comments, more are negative towards the idea of term limits than not. If we can get the money out of politics a la Lawrence Lessig, many of the problems, and even many of the incentives other than the wish to be a public servant, of being a career politician will be removed.

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19. Gambit says:
    2011/12/17 at 8:16 am

    Term limits – good intention, bad idea. Franklin Delano Roosevelt. I rest my case.

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20. Steve Katz says:
    2011/12/12 at 1:32 pm

    Changes to the customary middle class deductions must be phased in slowly in order to avoid destroying large portions of the economy and/or the personal savings of individuals (e.g., unless phased in slowly, removing the mortgage deduction will decimate the home construction industry and the value of an individual’s home; unless phased in slowly, removing the exemption of municipal bond interest will decimate city coffers and all those who now own municipal bonds).

    As important as changing the tax laws is to creating fairness, so is increasing the enforcement of those laws by increasing the number of IRS agents and the quality of IRS agents (through higher salaries)–thus making it less likely that the richest, most sophisticated taxpayers will be able to evade their responsibilities, while simultaneously more than paying for the cost of the additional and higher quality agents.

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    - novadust says:
      2011/12/19 at 7:23 am

      you’re right about munis. but suppose we had a $100k standard deduction per family. wouldn’t it make home mortgage interest deduction unnecessary? we’d need a high tax rate, but it wouldn’t affect the 99%.

      the home construction industry is already on its knees. why? because of foreclosures and the fact that, since gramm-leach-bliley, banks can make more money trading in financial markets than from lending at the current low rates, so they make it too hard to borrow. we need to freeze foreclosures and reinstate glass-steagall.

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21. Steve Katz says:
    2011/12/12 at 1:14 pm

    Since the other proposals remove all special benefits and perks and provide for public funding of elections, this proposal is not only unnecessary but counter-productive–all it accomplishes is to prevent those with experience from continuing to serve.

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    - novadust says:
      2011/12/19 at 7:08 am

      precisely.

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22. Tony says:
    2011/12/11 at 6:32 pm

    There are clearly pros and cons on this one.

    PRO: One of my biggest complaints is our representatives often grow out of touch with the main street views. Setting term limits would help by periodically infusing new blood into the legislative process and help eradicate the “inside the beltway” mentality. Yeah, I know our representatives should stay engaged with their constituency, but term limits would certainly help in keeping the country moving forward with fresh ideas. Limits would also help minimize cronyism, which, even with getting money out of politics, would exist as far as Congressional committees.

    CON: Agree the legislative process can be onerous so term limits could severely degrade the effectiveness of more frequent turnover; however, well-seasoned Congressional staffers as well as parliamentary experts could help minimize the learning curve.

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23. Mikhail Zorba says:
    2011/12/11 at 12:04 am

    Bad idea. I realize that given the dysfunctional and corrupt state of our political system that people are looking for quick and glitzy fixes to problems. But Term Limits as a proposed solution does not really do much. First, as logic dictates, if people don’t want people in office, then vote for someone else. Second, the way the parliamentary system works in Congress, experience especially counts for something. You rotate people in and out and by the time they learn how to play the system and begin becoming effective, they would be on their way out. Third, the most obvious and effective way is public financing of elections which is stated in item 19 of the Petition. Fourth, the real reform should come in parliamentary maneuvering and include the elimination of the filibuster among many other such reforms which would expedite legislation. Fifth, why punish great and talented elected officials who are doing the peoples’ work. Sixth, if politicians know they are very limited in the time in office, they may turn out to be more corrupt and savage, not less. Therefore, as a quick fix it resonates but makes little sense. Just pass laws that punish the hell out of this people when they break the laws, abolish insider trading, limit them to trading the political experience in the private world as lobbyists as well as prohibit corporations from hiring them or their family members while in office or for a period of six years thereafter.

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    - Nathan D says:
      2011/12/19 at 12:30 am

      I could agree with Term Limits for the House of Representatives – as I understand it, the Founding Fathers wanted turn-over in that house to keep fresh ideas coming into our government.

      Howerver, they set up the 6-year terms for Senators because they wanted some stability for our government as well as fresh ideas. To keep that concept working, term limits should not be imposed on Senators.

      We might also want to change the Supreme Court’s lifetime appointments to something shorter, requiring the President and Congress to select new Justices a bit more frequently (and allowing bad ones to be removed.)

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24. Patrick Molen says:
    2011/12/10 at 3:41 pm

    cut and past below…..Gives me goose bumps and makes me want to start signing the Star Spangled Banner (smile).

    “Serving as a member of Congress or as the President of the United States is one of the highest honors and privileges our culture can bestow. These positions of prominence in our society should be sought to serve one’s country and not provide a lifetime career designed to increase personal wealth and accumulate power for the sake of vanity and hubris.”

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    - novadust says:
      2011/12/19 at 7:07 am

      goose bumps?

      apparently you need more poetry in your life.

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25. Wayne says:
    2011/12/10 at 12:40 pm

    Vernon, I respectfully disagree. Legislative experience is not accomplishing anything now, and some legislators have been there for years. Eliminating campaign contributions will go much farther toward freeing up the time required for congress to get their job done. Having a limited amount of time to get things accomplished will speed up the process. As a tree hugger, I would bust my backside to get some good green energy legislation done. The less time I had to do it, the harder I’d work.

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    - novadust says:
      2011/12/19 at 7:03 am

      i agree with all you say except term limits.

      an important reason experienced legislators are having so much trouble “accomplishing anything now” is the rigid newbies from the 2010 election.

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26. Vernon Welsh says:
    2011/12/09 at 10:15 pm

    Term limits sounds great. But it means that the lobbyist, as happen in Oregon, will be running the country because they have the experience needed to get legislation done. Legislative experience is needed.

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Check out what's being said on all the Grievances and help draft the Petition!

1. Elimination of the Corporate State
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2. Abrogation of “Citizens United” Case
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3. Elimination of All Private Benefits and Perks” to Public Servants
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4. Term Limits
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5. A Fair Tax Code
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6. Healthcare for All
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7. Protection of the Planet
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8. Federal Debt Reduction
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9. Jobs for All Americans
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10. Student Loan Debt Relief & Refinancing
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11. Ending of Perpetual War for Profit
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12. Emergency Reform of Public Education
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13. End Outsourcing and Currency Manipulation
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14. Banking and Securities Reform
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15. Foreclosure Moratorium
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16. Ending the Federal Reserve Bank
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17. Abolish the Electoral College and Enact Uniform Election Rules
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18. Ending the War in Afghanistan and
Care of Veterans
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19. No Censorship of the Internet
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20. Reinstitution of Civil Rights
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21. Ending the “War on Drugs” and
Curtailing the Prison Industrial Complex
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